False opks, iui and inf

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TTC1stbaby
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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:11 am 
Post subject: False opks, iui and inf
Okay ladies for months I have been getting false positives on OPKS. I usually get them on CD 9-14 and when I do CD 21-22 bloods they always come back with no trace (flat 0.000) of progesterone. Even did one a CD23. I am waiting for my CD 22 on the 30th. If it comes back negative I am onto an RE for a consultation and know I will be on trigger shots. Do they normally start IUI in a situation like this or move you onto IVF? I know with IUI they normally have you come in when you get a positive OPK but since I keep getting false OPKs I am confused. I am wondering if I will have to go in alot for scans for IUI. I started OPKs in January 2012 when I had 28 day cycles (didn't start CD22 bloods till June). In June I started having 40-45 day cycles and at my persistant questioning the OBGYN said I could do CD32 bloods but he said they should come back with no progesterone. What do you ladies think? My Obgyn keeps telling me not to use OPKs and I did quit for awhile but went back bc I was curious if I would get a positive. I have not been diagnosed with endo abd pcos so I am not sure what is going on. Any insight appreciated. I have heard that drs don't like to fix problems just get you a baby. More money for them. So I am trying to be my own advocate. Do you think they will check my tubes before IUI or IVF? Should I ask them to?
DL05
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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:38 am 
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PCOS can be a reason for constantly positive OPK's but if you're just getting them at certain times that is strange as women with PCOS often get them all cycle Question
It could be though that you are getting genuine positives on cd9-14 but still not ovulating then, as OPK's only test for the LH surge and they don't guarantee that you will ovulate, you can get a surge and not ovulate for various reasons .
If you are having 40-45 day cycles then even cd32 is too early for progesterone testing with a 45 day cycle you could only be ovulating on day 31 Question , or even later if your normal luteal phase is less than 14 days .
There have been quite a few women on here who have been told they didn't ovulate from their bloods and then found out they were pregnant so they clearly did but the bloods weren't done at the right time .
This chart shows how the hormones fluctuate
http://www.cycleharmony.com/images/estrogen-progesterone-chart.gif
Its based on a 28 day cycle which you don't have at the moment but its a good approximation of what your hormones should be doing for the LAST 28 days of your 40-45 day cycles, in other words with a long cycle there might be not much happening for the first couple of weeks, or your body could be trying to ovulate and even having a surge but then not ovulating then and then trying again later and succeeding Question
Your Progesterone should be at a peak about 7 days or so BEFORE YOU EXPECT YOUR NEXT AF thats very important for the timing of the bloods , so with a 40-45 day cycle they should be testing you on cd33 and cd38 to confirm ovulation which could have happened as late as cd 26 to 30 or even a bit later.
If its done on the wrong days it will give wrong results it goes up and down so quickly that even a few days can make a big difference.
It really frustrates me how many doctors who should know better will get the timing of these bloods wrong and be telling women they don't ovulate when they do Rolling Eyes
CD21 is based purely on a women with 28 day cycles and presuming she ovulates mid cycle on cd 14 most women don't Rolling Eyes
Having long cycles in itself isn't a problem as far as fertility goes,you can still conceive when you do ovulate, but it makes the timing awkward , and of course is causing confusion for you , I'd suggest getting a pack of the cheap OPK's from online (you can get a pack of 50 from amazon in the UK for a few pounds , I think you're US maybe Question but I presume they sell them there as well ) and do one every day for your whole cycle , you may well find that you get more than one surge, some women have 2 or 3 before they actually ovulate , if you also get a BBT thermometer and start BBT charting then you will be able to tell if one of those surges resulted in actual ovulation as you will see a temp rise, then from there you can get bloods done 8 days after the surge (one extra day to take into account you don't ov immediately) and that should give you a true picture of your post ovulation progesterone levels Smile , if they are low then there are things they can do to sort that.
I can't personally see any point in going on to IUI based on those cd9-14 positive OPK's alone Question , as if you're just getting a surge and not ovulating it will be a waste of time, if they suggest an IUI cycle with something to bring on ovulation such as clomid or similar alongside tracking scans then thats different as they will know when you ovulate Smile
For me personally I would want to check all possible problems before going on to IUI or IVF, in the UK they tend to do that and work up from the cheapest tests to the more expensive treatments, if you have insurance then the doctor might well want to jump into things that get them the most money Confused
(I've found the same here when it comes to private treatments , whereas with the NHS its the opposite and they don't like to spend Rolling Eyes Laughing )
I'd think it would be sensible to do a HSG to check your tubes before going to IUI and also a pelvic scan to check the ovaries for any signs of PCOS as you have long cycles and may not be ovulating , the BBT charting and OPK's you can do yourself as well, my reversal doc considered BBT as the equivalent of a progesterone test for checking you have ovulated (its the progesterone rise that makes the temps rise )
I do agree though that some docs seem to jump to IUI or IVF too quickly when there might be something much simpler they can do to improve your overall fertility, with any doctor I'd say if you don't have any faith that they have your best interests at heart then switch doctors (if you can ) Good luck xx
kas123
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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:51 pm 
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some women can not use OPK's I am one I get positives on them from just before OV till the period. did find that my cbfm worked though as it tracks two hormones. I dont have PCOS and have had my cycles tracked via ultrascan but have never had my 21 days bloods done. Longer cycles can indicate not OV. If you are given a choose i would start with clomid as it is a lot cheaper then IUI and if you start OV you may get PG naturally
TTC1stbaby
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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:53 pm 
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DL05 wrote:
PCOS can be a reason for constantly positive OPK's but if you're just getting them at certain times that is strange as women with PCOS often get them all cycle Question
It could be though that you are getting genuine positives on cd9-14 but still not ovulating then, as OPK's only test for the LH surge and they don't guarantee that you will ovulate, you can get a surge and not ovulate for various reasons .
If you are having 40-45 day cycles then even cd32 is too early for progesterone testing with a 45 day cycle you could only be ovulating on day 31 Question , or even later if your normal luteal phase is less than 14 days .
There have been quite a few women on here who have been told they didn't ovulate from their bloods and then found out they were pregnant so they clearly did but the bloods weren't done at the right time .
This chart shows how the hormones fluctuate
http://www.cycleharmony.com/images/estrogen-progesterone-chart.gif
Its based on a 28 day cycle which you don't have at the moment but its a good approximation of what your hormones should be doing for the LAST 28 days of your 40-45 day cycles, in other words with a long cycle there might be not much happening for the first couple of weeks, or your body could be trying to ovulate and even having a surge but then not ovulating then and then trying again later and succeeding Question
Your Progesterone should be at a peak about 7 days or so BEFORE YOU EXPECT YOUR NEXT AF thats very important for the timing of the bloods , so with a 40-45 day cycle they should be testing you on cd33 and cd38 to confirm ovulation which could have happened as late as cd 26 to 30 or even a bit later.
If its done on the wrong days it will give wrong results it goes up and down so quickly that even a few days can make a big difference.
It really frustrates me how many doctors who should know better will get the timing of these bloods wrong and be telling women they don't ovulate when they do Rolling Eyes
CD21 is based purely on a women with 28 day cycles and presuming she ovulates mid cycle on cd 14 most women don't Rolling Eyes
Having long cycles in itself isn't a problem as far as fertility goes,you can still conceive when you do ovulate, but it makes the timing awkward , and of course is causing confusion for you , I'd suggest getting a pack of the cheap OPK's from online (you can get a pack of 50 from amazon in the UK for a few pounds , I think you're US maybe Question but I presume they sell them there as well ) and do one every day for your whole cycle , you may well find that you get more than one surge, some women have 2 or 3 before they actually ovulate , if you also get a BBT thermometer and start BBT charting then you will be able to tell if one of those surges resulted in actual ovulation as you will see a temp rise, then from there you can get bloods done 8 days after the surge (one extra day to take into account you don't ov immediately) and that should give you a true picture of your post ovulation progesterone levels Smile , if they are low then there are things they can do to sort that.
I can't personally see any point in going on to IUI based on those cd9-14 positive OPK's alone Question , as if you're just getting a surge and not ovulating it will be a waste of time, if they suggest an IUI cycle with something to bring on ovulation such as clomid or similar alongside tracking scans then thats different as they will know when you ovulate Smile
For me personally I would want to check all possible problems before going on to IUI or IVF, in the UK they tend to do that and work up from the cheapest tests to the more expensive treatments, if you have insurance then the doctor might well want to jump into things that get them the most money Confused
(I've found the same here when it comes to private treatments , whereas with the NHS its the opposite and they don't like to spend Rolling Eyes Laughing )
I'd think it would be sensible to do a HSG to check your tubes before going to IUI and also a pelvic scan to check the ovaries for any signs of PCOS as you have long cycles and may not be ovulating , the BBT charting and OPK's you can do yourself as well, my reversal doc considered BBT as the equivalent of a progesterone test for checking you have ovulated (its the progesterone rise that makes the temps rise )
I do agree though that some docs seem to jump to IUI or IVF too quickly when there might be something much simpler they can do to improve your overall fertility, with any doctor I'd say if you don't have any faith that they have your best interests at heart then switch doctors (if you can ) Good luck xx


Thanks. I honestly think my OBGYN has my best interest at heart but he can't do everything and doesn't specialize in infertility so I think he is missing a few things. He did put me on clomid and femara when all the other drs I saw (2) told me that I shouldn't be concerned abt really weird cycle changes. We had been trying a year at that point. I sat down with him at our 1st appt and told him my concerns so he started testing. I really appreciated that. I have been reading reviews of local REs (up to 3 hrs away) and I keep reading the same things about them, that they have a God complex and don't want you to question them. I think as a patient it is our responsibility to question them and know our options. My OBGYN gave me to blood work orders. One for CD 22 and one he recommended for CD32. He didn't date it so I can use it when I feel most comfortable. I have used OPKs the whole cycle (even after he told me to ignore them) Once or twice I would get a second surge. IUI or IVF will be completely out of our pocket and I don't want to throw away money on something that is doomed to fail. I was talking to my mother in law and she said it took DH's paternal grandparents 5 years to get pregnant and it took DH's parents just abbt 2 years, and DH's brother and sister in law a little over a year. I am wondering if it is a family thing. We did have DH's swimmers checked and the 1st test came back and it was bad. So bad they gave us the option of IVF or retesting. We chose to retest even though I know wish we had gone for IVF. The second test came back fine. When we get sent to the RE I want them to test once more. I figure that the 1st test came back bad bc he was working outdoors in 100 degree and higher temps several days before his tests. I have had three pelvic scans and the drs all said it was inconclusive but two of the drs agreed I needed to be on metformin as well as a nurse practioner. I will ask them abt my tubes and getting another undated blood order. I hadn't thought of doing it as late as CD 38 but that does make sense. Haven't done BBT bc I never get up at the same time and I am scared it would stress me out testing everyday and seeing no rise. I think it is time to give it a whirl though. Thanks so much for your help. I don't like to go into appt uninformed so I always try to dig aorund for information and questns to ask. Thanks again! Wishing you tons of babydust!! Smile
TTC1stbaby
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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:00 pm 
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kas123 wrote:
some women can not use OPK's I am one I get positives on them from just before OV till the period. did find that my cbfm worked though as it tracks two hormones. I dont have PCOS and have had my cycles tracked via ultrascan but have never had my 21 days bloods done. Longer cycles can indicate not OV. If you are given aI choose i would start with clomid as it is a lot cheaper then IUI and if you start OV you may get PG naturally


I may have to try the CBFM. Never tried them. I have tried clomid and femara and nothing seems to be working so I am onto another method soon. OBGYN had told me my next step would be injections. He did tell me that longer cycles could indicate not ovulating but prior to June I was having 28 day cycles and he said my June episode was caused by not ovulating in past. I questioned him abt it but he kind of skittered around answering me. Thanks I will give the CBFM a whirl! Wishing you tons of baby dust!! Smile
DL05
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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:04 pm 
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Some women have long cycles but do ovulate and short cycles can be a sign you're not ovulating too , its a minefield Rolling Eyes
Tracking scans would be good if your doc can do those Question then they can see the follicles and watch them grow and have a good idea of when you do ov or if you do, honestly getting pregnant is mostly luck and timing and it might just be that if you can figure out when you ovulate and get the timing right it might happen Question
I wouldn't worry too much about family history as Fertility problems aren't normal something thats passed down , do they suspect PCOS then ?
I know some Ladies on here have very long cycles with that, but you can still get pregnant when you finally do ovulate it just means you get less chances . the BBT won't help with conception of course because it tells you too late, but at least if you do try it for a full cycle then you'll get a pretty good idea of if you ov'd or not and also when you ov'd so you can take that back to the doc and work out what to do from there Question As long as you do it as soon as you wake up a bit of a time difference doesn't matter , Good luck xx
TTC1stbaby
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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:28 pm 
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DL05 wrote:
Some women have long cycles but do ovulate and short cycles can be a sign you're not ovulating too , its a minefield Rolling Eyes
Tracking scans would be good if your doc can do those Question then they can see the follicles and watch them grow and have a good idea of when you do ov or if you do, honestly getting pregnant is mostly luck and timing and it might just be that if you can figure out when you ovulate and get the timing right it might happen Question
I wouldn't worry too much about family history as Fertility problems aren't normal something thats passed down , do they suspect PCOS then ?
I know some Ladies on here have very long cycles with that, but you can still get pregnant when you finally do ovulate it just means you get less chances . the BBT won't help with conception of course because it tells you too late, but at least if you do try it for a full cycle then you'll get a pretty good idea of if you ov'd or not and also when you ov'd so you can take that back to the doc and work out what to do from there Question As long as you do it as soon as you wake up a bit of a time difference doesn't matter , Good luck xx


My local dr and the nurse practioner said they think I have PCOS and it's the OBGYNs that won't give me a conclusive answer bc the test results are inconclusive. One did want to start me on metformin but the local dr had beat him to it. I have been on it almost a year now. The OBGYN did say the RE will do tracking scans. Dh and I bd at least every other day during the month so I wouldn't think we could be off on our timing. I think the BBT will bring me comfort in the end it's the waiting to see if I have ovulated that is going to bother me. Thanks
DL05
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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:45 pm 
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Have you seen any of the info on the GI diet and PCOS ? If you have got it then there's an element of insulin resistance (hence the metformin being prescribed) so following a diet designed for diabetics can really help Smile
Supposedly a big factor in lowering fertility levels is eating too much processed sugar in our diets which our bodies really aren't designed to handle and it can affect Oestrogen levels as well Shocked and annoyingly high Oestrogen then makes you crave sugar Rolling Eyes
I've read a fair bit about the GI diet when i was trying to lose weight and one site I was on had a lot of women who didn't have the typical PCOS weight issues but still found that the GI diet really helped their cycles Question Its fairly easy to follow as well might be worth a look ? xx
TTC1stbaby
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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:01 pm 
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DL05 wrote:
Have you seen any of the info on the GI diet and PCOS ? If you have got it then there's an element of insulin resistance (hence the metformin being prescribed) so following a diet designed for diabetics can really help Smile
Supposedly a big factor in lowering fertility levels is eating too much processed sugar in our diets which our bodies really aren't designed to handle and it can affect Oestrogen levels as well Shocked and annoyingly high Oestrogen then makes you crave sugar Rolling Eyes
I've read a fair bit about the GI diet when i was trying to lose weight and one site I was on had a lot of women who didn't have the typical PCOS weight issues but still found that the GI diet really helped their cycles Question Its fairly easy to follow as well might be worth a look ? xx


I've heard about it. Just don't know much about it. My OBGYN recommended the South Beach Diet and I have purchased several books about it I just didn't get enough information on what to eat during each phase. I will take a look at the GI diet. I have really cut back on the pop only 3 in 2 weeks while their would be periods in the past where I would drink several a day. Switched to tea so I could get tea no I am trying to wean if of tea too. Smile I will have to read more about the GI diet. Really sounds good. Do you remember the GI diet site?
DL05
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Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:44 am 
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This one has an option to choose where you are on it
http://www.gidiet.com/
not actually been on this one though just posting before I go out Laughing hope its some use to you, I think the GI is more about how you prep food and less about restricting it though and you can follow it all cycle xx
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