Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:27 pm
Post subject: Hello again...
I'm not sure what my point is with this post, but maybe someone recognises it. I've been having bad breakthrough bleeding after my surgery about 18 months ago. Progesterone pessaries sorted it for about 6 months and it started again. About a week of flowing before my actual period (I don't mean spotting, I mean enough for a pad). So I'd be going for about 2 weeks.
For a while I've been having acupuncture and it appeared to get sorted again. Every now and again the odd cycle with the extra bit, but was doing well. Now this cycle again. I'm going now for nearly 2 weeks again. I had such a rough day yesterday...it felt like I had a waterfall down there...sorry way too tmi...it's scary really.
But hey ho, saw the acupuncturist and she gave me chinese herbs to try (as I've been experiencing...tmi coming up...big clots too), which hopefully will help with the flow. Instead of having one day of complete agony and the next the great flood, it should be more manageable.
She did mention that by the sounds of things my hormones are seriously out of sync...that worried me a bit. She has tried some new things today, but said if that doesn't help and this keeps happening to go back to the gynea and ask to have my hormone balances checked, as she think I may have a progesterone problem. I didn't make much of it, till she said that can mean something could be trying to stay in there, but gets tossed out as my progesterone is lingering near the end of my cycle and my body deciding to throw all out to be on the safe side. That I didn't know...
She isn't sure of course if my progesterone is failing a bit at certain times (when I'm busy and stressed) or if it's just something that needs a kick start again and my body will pick itself up again or that I am just someone that has difficulties producing enough of it by myself...It's a bit strange I guess. I guess it does give an answer in a way, as perhaps we're trying to make something happen, but missing a vital piece of the puzzle.
I'm trying to get my head around it a bit. She gave me a list of foods I should eat to help the levels, so I'm going to try the natural route more first. FX it works.
Otherwise, back to the hospital I go I guess. I was hoping to have a break from those sterile white walls hahaha! And now its luring me back in!
I'm staying positive as I keep thinking if its meant to be it will happen, if its not, well we're happy together either way.
It would just be nice if once and for all, I knew what the heck is happening down there. Is there anyone else on here that has a body that is a bit fickle with progesterone? What helped you?
Sorry long story! It helps to get my head around it.
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:42 pm
My sister had this and got referred for tests. They were initially concerned about ovarian cancer. Turned out she has PCOS and has been put on the pill which worked. I think though she did spot until ovulation as well. This started out of the blue las year. She had hormones checked but considering she has PCOS these were fine. I know someone else who bled for a couple of weeks and she had thyroid issues not sure if the 2 are related or not.
I would go back and get it sorted as bleeding for long periods certainly is not normal.
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:21 pm
Thx for replying banoffee. I had the full works just over 2 years ago and they found cystes on the ovaries as the cause. Hence the surgery. I got checked for cancer and chlamydia at the time too, so uplifting. My last smear recently came back fine too. Or does that perhaps not say too much? I am thinking about just going back for a consultation, to discuss it all. Its so frustrating. I did have stressfull, busy weeks, so did think this could perhaps be a response? Maybe that area is a bit of a weak spot?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:51 pm
Perhaps the cysts have come back. Did they say that it was PCOS? The pill my sister was put on stopped all the bleeding but she is not TTC. I would definitely go back get yourself checked and hormones checked. I've heard of something called Adenomyosis which can cause irregular bleeding too. Why can't out bodies behave?
Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:33 am
Pen don't worry that you being stressed can affect your Progesterone, it doesn't
Stress can affect Oestrogen levels before ov, its was natures way of stopping us conceiving if a threat was perceived way back when we lived in caves but once you ov then Progesterone is controlled by feedback between your brain and the corpus luteum using LH before implantation and then HCG after implantation .
Spotting can be a sign of low progesterone , but if you are having bleeding heavy enough for you to consider it "flow" rather than spotting then really I suspect a doc would consider that an early AF , which does suggest maybe a luteal phase deficiency (as 7 days is considered too short to allow implantation)and that the corpus luteum is breaking down too early, which is why the progesterone drops.
With you saying the bleeding starts about a week before you'd expect your AF (approx a week after ov then) and that you had progesterone pessaries and they stopped it , it does sound more like low progesterone could be causing it ,a 7 day luteul phase would make implantation much harder as if had only just happened on say 5/6/7 DPO then HCG levels might not be high enough to stop the corpus luteum breaking down , which I presume is what the acupuncturist was getting at , that your body might not realise you are pregnant in time to stop the lining being shed and along with it the fertilised egg
If it is low progesterone then doc will often give clomid to help as well as suppositories, as clomid can make your body release 2 or more eggs so you get 2 or more corpus luteum which should then mean you have higher progesterone levels
It is treatable though
I think I'd be tempted to get hormone levels checked sooner rather than later though as there's only so much herbs can do , plus its always good to know what you're starting out with so you can see if things improve
Dong quai is supposed to be very good for cramps and clotting as it regulates the uterine contractions , its when these become spasms instead of smooth muscle contractions that you get cramping (like any muscle cramps you get pain from a lack of normal blood/oxygen to the site of the cramping) which can also affect the cervix, which interupts the menstrual flow and leads to clotting starting (its just a natural thing that if the lining comes away but is trapped in the womb that it starts to clot, if the contractions are smooth and the flow is constant then you don't tend to get clots forming )
The dong quai is also a natural blood thinner so its not recommended for women with extremely heavy periods ,but if yours are heavy due to the stop/start effect from cramping then it can help with that I also find it makes me ov a lot earlier as well, and seems to have a similar effect to soy for me
Good luck getting it sorted xx
Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:44 am
I hope not Banoffee. But will prob make that appt and just be on the safe side really...goodness, just can't get away from that hospital!
This cycle I started bleeding on time (well about 2/3 days earlier than I expected it) but it was like an engine again that didn't really got going. Don't know how else to prescribe it. So thought at first that maybe I was having a light one for a change. But then after that one and I was thinking it should stop now, my actual af appeared to be kicking it. It's weird hey. So the acupuncturist said that maybe I was actually late, if that makes sense. I appear to be confusing everyone! My body has a whole box of tricks of its own haha!
A couple of cycles back I was actually a whole week late with nothing, no bleeds nothing, till I was literally a whole week and then had my af like normal. Tests were all bfn. It's been a bit odd the past few cycles I guess is the right word hahaha!
I'm hoping the herbs (I suspect its dong quai indeed) will help with making it a bit more spread out over the week, instead of a leaky fawcet followed by a complete storm haha!
I think I'll wait first till this one ends and then prob just book myself in for a chat. I was having a bit of a holiday from the hospital adventures (will tell him that then too, that that's why he didn;t see me for a while ), but yeah...I guess with recent events it may be better to pick someone's brain again. Strange thing is every scan I had, with or without the fertility drugs, I always had two mature eggs. To make it even more confusing. The pessaries the first time indeed sorted the issues for about 6 months, those months after it was textbook really, till it slowly started again. The gynea I saw then, said that maybe it was just part of me. But what if they think I mean spotting, when actually it's not spotting, it's I don't know. Brown thick and not very nice really. Maybe I need to sit there and really say, it's not spotting, it looks like this. What do you think? Nothing shocks gyneas anyway. Surely there is an end to this saga.
Thx again ladies!
Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:12 pm
Yeah I think they're beyond shocking If its brownish then that does sound more like spotting than menstrual flow, it could appear thick as it may be mixed with cm that can tend to be thickish just before AF
I know sometimes when women release 2 eggs they don't always do it on the same day , sometimes it can be days apart , just a theory but maybe if that happens with you one corpus luteum starts breaking down before the other and causes a drop in progesterone that triggers some spotting/bleeding and then when the other one breaks down as well you get a "proper" AF
Alaway releasing two eggs can be hereditary apparently through the female side , do you have twins in your mums side of the family
It's hard sometimes to know whats going on though without getting ov timing confirmed isn't it , at least with the bloods etc. they should be able to get a clearer picture of what your ovaries are doing
I could do with some sort of home scan machine or something to check mine out myself this cycle, haven't got a clue now if I've ov'd or not after thinking I had
Honestly I feel your pain though, its like everytime you think you know what to expect your body changes it xx
Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:41 pm
Ah, I thought spotting meant literally spots. That's why I thought it wasn't. Hmm. That would explain something if it's a mix of things.
I never thought of it that way, hmm. More food for thought! I don't know of any twins, but my gran had lots of brothers and sisters (her parents had 22 kids I think, yep that is not a typo, 22 , not all survived, but most did). So it could be some of them went on to have twins. I'm not sure. I remember my mum saying some cousins had twins I think. Oh dear...can you imagine...it taking years and then getting the whopper of two in one go! Oh my...
I read your post indeed, that's another confusing one isn't it! I thought, ooh finally I can return the favour, read it and thought...actually I can't. I know my GP once said that if you have a cycle where you don't ov (it's possible nothing wrong with it) that your following af can keep going till you do again. So if you have one going for a bit longer, it could be that.
Indeed, sometimes you wish you had one of those pelvic scanners on stand by at all times! Hope yours becomes more clear too what it's doing!
Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:37 am
The whole spotting thing is confusing isn't it , I think they mean anything too light for you to consider it a normal period As everyones different anyway, for some women that might just be a few spots for others it could be a light flow I suppose and often when its light it will be brown as it just takes a bit longer to leave your body
I think twins are lovely when they're other peoples even with clomid though the rate of twins isn't increased very much and a lot of women will get 2 or even 3 eggs with that maybe once you get this issue sorted it will just mean you have a better chance of having at least one fertilised every month
After doing a bit of reading it seems that even with a surge and a popping follicle sometimes there won't be an egg i'm not even sure if I had a surge at this point , I suppose by next weekend I might have a better idea though cos if I did ov when I first thought AF will be due Saturday ,if its a no show I'll know I didn't
Good luck with the Gynae xx